wording proposal for SEDIV rules 2008
I think 8.2.A should be clarified to something like: " A DNF shall be scored as the slowest time by any competitor for the run-group in which the penalty occured, plus an extra 10 seconds." John Barnett

This wouldn't be an issue if we didn't compare our times between classes - but we all do it anyway. Why stop at run group though? Often times a car is driven by several drivers and they have to be split up into different run groups.

I was talking to Dave about this and it got confusing simply by the termeeenology. Normally, we run 2 groups... "A" and "B". assuming just for this there's 8 runs total per competitor- group A runs 4 runs, then B runs 4 runs, then (either backwards or not) 4 more runs for group A and 4 more for group B.... If I'm driving in Group B and DNF my #2 run, then should the amount/time used to figure the DNF (slowest recorded run +10 seconds) come from: 1. all the #2 runs 2. just the group B #2 runs 3. from the "run group" of runs 1,2,3,and 4 for group B? 4. EVERYONE's run #2? I think option 4 is not right because the course can often change between group A and group B, either due to ruts requiring a course adjustment or simply as we all know the course can get faster or slower between groups. I feel that #3 is the best option, giving the driver who DNF'd a larger pool of run times that the DNF "bogey" time can be draw from. That is simply my opinion and why I brought this up. whatever everyone wants to go with, (or the most people want) I think we need to work towards everyone completely understanding and implementing the same DNF penalty for the sake of less confusion + uniformity. Thoughts? John

But what about when the class is split apart into the two run groups? You know I used to have 4 drivers in the same car. 5. from all the #2 runs in the class. Around here, it's not very often that we have to change the course. Now the course conditions may change, but not the physical course. How about this one: {pot stir on} 6. from all the runs of all the run groups. {pot stir off}

I'm more concerned about getting a concensus on what everyone wants and having uniformity than any particular answer. Doing "the slowest time from that class for a particular individual run seems like a reaaaaly narrow swath to pull from, especially if a small event (which most are) or if there are no other competitors in class. I think, for now, M.O. is leaning toward the slowest time in the run group- i.e. "group B, runs 5,6,7,8" If we keep the quo of running stock/prepped in one group and 4wd/mod in the other, then this keeps the mod folks from getting a SF competitor's bogey time for DNF computation. I realize that it makes it a different DNF time for different people and you cannot know what DNF is until all runs are done, but that doesn't seem to bad.

my .02
in nashville we have had a couple strange occurances. TONS of rain in the middle of a run group--so some got dry runs and others wet runs and times were over a minute different. so if DNF's were slowest in same run group and in the same class and 2 people in the same run group but in different classes DNF'd, then those 2 people could have penalty's that are over a minute different. and if you think about it, if everybody in your class got dry runs, and you get stuck with a minute longer wet run, it would save you time to DNF, and take thier dry run plus 10 seconds. flip side of this is say M4 is competitve and close in times, but SR is running with them, one of the M4 guys DNF's now does he get stuck with the slowest SR time plus 10 seconds, if so he probably has no chance, if he gets the slowest M4 time plus 10seconds it's a long shot, but it is better than SR plus 10 so after seeing this what i have done is if rain is forcast and looks likely, DNF's are slowest in your run group plus 10 seconds, but if it appears to be a dry day then we have used slowest in your run group in your class plus 10 seconds and i have also always used the slowest time of the same run that was DNF'd there is NO great way to score DNF's but that is my .02

I realize there is no perfect answer, and there will always be factors, but I think the right thing to do is come up with an answer that is able to be used by all, so competitors know what to expect. A DNF should knock you out of "the hunt" for a class win, thus trying to make it avoidable at all costs. It's tough to have a good day going and blow it (I know this all too well) but that's racing and what sets RallyCross apart. More difficult=more challenging=more rewarding.

1. If you break, you get a DNF. 2. If you miss a gate, you get a DNF. 3. If you have a lousy run going and decide to skip 1/2 the course, you get a DNF. Are all three scenarios equal? Should they be?